Best 2way Smart light Switches - Have Neutral wire

Discussion in 'Electricians' Talk' started by Richard Follows, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Richard Follows

    Richard Follows New Member

    Hello Guys

    I have had to sign up as new users as I have lost my old account

    I hope you can help. I’m looking for some smart light switches and I have had some success with Sonoff units which are 1 way.

    However, when it comes to 2 way switches this is where I have some issues. I would like them to work with ALEXA and I don’t have a Broadcom or other hub so ideally, I would like them to work of EWLink or SMART LIFE etc.

    Most of the house which I’m looking to use the smart lights are wired to have neutral apart from one socket. I have included photos of the light sockets below. I’m also looking for switches that would cover the hole left by the 3 gang rocker switches.

    I hope you guys can offer advice on which units I would require. I would like a straight swap to allow the switches to work even with loss of WIFI. Also, if it’s too expensive to do all the lights I would look at only doing the 1 4 gang unit and the 2 3 gang units.

    Hope it makes sense

    Kitchen switch (4 gang)

    [​IMG]
    Hall light on the same level as Kitchen

    [​IMG]

    Landing light

    [​IMG]

    Landing light 2 – No neutral in this slot have looked at installing the below unit (which is on order)

    Yoswit Smart Light Switch 2 Gang - No Neutral Wire Required, Control Lighting from Anywhere, No Hub Required, Built-in Timer and Support IFTTT

    [​IMG]


    Attic light

    [​IMG]
     
  2. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member

    Not sure which make to go for but a couple of things, make sure they will fit into the back boxes, it looks a little crowded in there and also you have a couple of intermediate modules in those switches so make sure any smart switch will work with this set up.

    The trouble with smart switches though is what you think is cutting edge technology is actually dated and defunct because the world has moved on, I would suggest Lightwave stuff but it might be a dinosaur for all I know. Most high end stuff I see now just has a cat 5 or 4 core cable to the switch.
     
  3. Richard Follows

    Richard Follows New Member

    I think they will fit because I have some spacers and I think I have a deeper box +35mm and have done some tests with Sonoff units etc.

    What do you mean by intermediate modules? I guess I’m looking for two way switch “smart switches”

    True if I had the money to hardwire them all in with cat 6 I would but it’s a new build so :-/
     
  4. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member

    A 2 way switch has 3 connections, common, L1 and L2. you would normally have 1 switch at each end like a landing light. An intermediate switch is used where you want 3 or more switches controlling the same light and it has 4 connections, you appear to have at least 2 intermediate modules from the switches you've posted.

    I'm not sure how smart switches cope with 2 and 3 way lighting but it something to bear in mind when choosing them.
     
  5. Richard Follows

    Richard Follows New Member

    Thanks for the reply again. I’m not sure which switch is intermediate as they all only have one function or a 2 way at the end of each hall none of the switches control 3 lights or the switch controls 3 lights.

    Anyone else can offer advise or maybe I need to post on another forum?
     
  6. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    I'm hoping you have some sort of instructions with the switches. What do they say? Post them up on here if you arent sure.

    I have no knowledge of the Yoswit products, nor the time to search their website for them, but there is a relavent question on the FAQ ....
    Screenshot 2019-01-13 10.19.38.png
    SO perhaps you need a "multi-location" switch, whatever that is.

    Their website does have support contact details, so maybe that is your best route to ask this question?

    https://www.yoswit.com/pages/faq/faq-wall-switches
     
  7. Richard Follows

    Richard Follows New Member

    Hi Bazza

    Thanks for chiming in. The Yoswit switches are really only another test. Which might not happen as they are held in customs and I refuse to pay the fee which is being asked for as they are more than what I can get in the uk.... I did not know they were being shipped from Hong Kong.

    So my question really is what best system would fit the setup ( not just Yoswit) I have even if it was only to start with the kitchen ....but then that would be a smart switch to a rocker switch is that even possible as part of a two way setup?

    As I have neutral wires as well in all but one.
     
  8. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Hmmm. The best way to install "smart" switches is with new cabling. Most "smart" switches use a single live (and neutral), which makes them difficult to install in existing wiring, particularly in two-way applications such as downstairs switches for landing lights which have live feeds from both the separate upstairs and downstairs lighting circuits.

    This blog may be of some help (but of little comfort) https://www.zwaveproducts.com/learn/blog/what-you-need-to-know-before-you-change-your-wall-switch

    The different manufacturers have different ways of handling the 2/3 way switching conundrum. I have not come across one that supports the use of a smart switch at one end and a standard switch at the other (I expect others will chime in with examples of some that do).
    The ones I have installed tend to have an L connection and at least one or two control wires between the two ends down which the two switches chat to each other, eg Retrotouch who is installable using most lighting circuits (with the exception of the up&down feed issue noted above.) Heres the Retrotouch 2 way and intermediate wiring diagram.
    http://www.retrotouch.co.uk/user/RTS2020-2040_2_way_switch_switch.pdf

    Suggest you do a lot more research before you jump in!
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  9. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member


    * this is an intermediate switch

    49525767_10162066087235377_7786376589222084608_n.jpg

    And this is an intermediate switch

    49771578_10162066087210377_3324000070843498496_n.jpg

    Its even wrote on the switch what it is. Did you even read what I wrote, ONE LIGHT 3 SWITCHES, not 3 lights and 1 switch, I'm out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 14, 2019
  10. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select


    upload_2019-1-13_13-27-4.png

    Richard, the switches at the ends are 2 way and the one in the middle is the intermediate. You can see it has 4 terminals instead of 3, so in your case you have 3 switches controlling one light.

    Kind regards
     
  11. Richard Follows

    Richard Follows New Member

    Hi Peter I think your message was quite rude. This is a forum for help not abuse. It was saying intermediate but I was still not clear what this meant as all the switches on that gang are individual and if I press that first light switch it turn on the hall light and the kitchen switch turns it off.

    If I use the middle switch on the second picture it turns on the landing light. So they control different lights

    So @Bazza-spark what you say makes sense with the the two way switches but the intermediate also only control one light and from what I can see should be just a two way..

    @Bazza yes more research is required hence this forum :)
     
  12. Bazza-spark

    Bazza-spark Screwfix Select

    Richard, as Peter has pointed out, your photos definitely show intermediate switches with cable in both poles.

    Kind regards
     
  13. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member

    I was rude? you basically said I didn't have a clue and it would be better if you got help from a decent forum.

    Sounds like the wiring is mixed up anyway from what you describe.
     
  14. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    You did say
    I’d have said that was a little on the impolite side!

    My feeling is the OP doesn’t fully understand how lighting circuits work. On that basis I would cut him a bit of slack.
     
  15. peter palmer

    peter palmer Super Member

    He called me a ******.
     
  16. Richard Follows

    Richard Follows New Member

    I did not call anyone anything?? :) I was just asking if maybe this was not the best forum or if anyone knew one that specifically dealt with "smart switches" as to not waste peoples time :).

    Yes I'm a novice but good at DIY and trying to improve my skill levels.

    @Bazza you are right I don't fully understand and this is a good learning experience. Hence why I have posted all the pictures and tried to label them the best I can for the functions they perform.

    I don't disagree they say Intermediate but the function they perform does not seem to collateral with what you are
    describing.
     
  17. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    The circuits with intermediate switches will have three (or more) switches that control each light. They allow the controlled light to be turned on and off at any of the three (or more) switches.
    They are usually wired like this:
    Screenshot 2019-01-14 09.32.37.png
     
  18. Richard Follows

    Richard Follows New Member

    @Bazza This is great information I went home last night and drew a map of the lighting. It appears that YES there are 2 - 3 way connections. Please see the diagram below. In this case I'm not sure any "smart light" system would work for me and it would be not cost effective to get Phillips Hue bulbs as they are expensive and they don't do them for G9 bulbs as far as I know.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Bazza

    Bazza Screwfix Select

    Richard, with respect, this is really, really basic stuff. Best to do a bit of research.

    Unfortunately, much of today's expectation is that everything is 'plug and play'. Basic services, like electrical stuff, haven't moved on much in 40 years and adapting to "smart" capability needs a lot of understanding and effort to achieve.
     
  20. Richard Follows

    Richard Follows New Member

    @Bazza Is this not what forums like this are setup for? To help with this research. I have learnt much from this thread so thank you so much. I would agree that the expectation is "plug and play" but I learnt how to plumb my house, tile, insulate, install Cat 6 cables etc and repair things from Apple watches to Toasters.

    The electrics as I suspect with lots of people is one of the last we "DIYers" will look at because of the dangers that can be involved. Also when researching you have to make sure its the UK standard you are looking at as You Tube and online article etc will often reference US standards. So again forums like this are a an amazing resource and the people on them.
     

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